nfu wayleave payment rates

It gives landowners certainty and clarity on our pricing and is endorsed by the CLA and NFU. The NFU had also raised concerns about the impact of Competition Legislation upon its proposals (i.e. Set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin, this cookie is used to record the user consent for the cookies in the "Advertisement" category . The compensation in this instance would be the value of the sterilised strip of land, reflecting the development value, says Ms Collins. Charles Trotman, CLA senior economist, said the deal was a win for landowners given it was set against the backdrop of the Electronic Communications Code, which aims to drive down the payments made to landowners for installing telecoms equipment. I bent the 24m sprayer boom on a pole i misjudged. All rights reserved. NFU Vice President Stuart Roberts said: "It's pleasing that after many years of gathering data and the ENA developing calculations, the new advisory rates for arable land have . This is referred to as a successor in title on the agreement. Good to see the CLA membership has long been part of the problem in delaying or stopping deployment. Im starting to view the NFU as being a bit like Jimmy Saville, they undoubtedly do a lot of good but it in no way makes up for the harm they do, https://www.energynetworks.org/industry-hub/resource-library/guide-to-advisory-wayleave-payments-for-occupiers-of-arable-land.pdf. It can also be given for underground purposes such as data cabling for telecommunication companies. None the less, i was allways of the impression that it was the NFU that negotiated these wayleaves which are then used for everyone, member or not. The deal has taken more than 18 months to negotiate. The company will want to rent space above the land and, in return for hosting that equipment, landowners are entitled to an annual payment of rent or compensation. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Download. What weve managed to do here is put a benchmark in the market and stabilise the market, he said. This site uses cookies to enhance your experience, please click Accept & Continue to proceed with the use of ALL cookies. Agreements can normally be terminated by the landowner giving 12 months notice, however undertakers can rely on statutory powers to keep equipment on land. If you search for the UK energy networks website you should be able to look up for your local contact. To work out how the payment will be treated for tax purposes, it is important to have a good understanding of what is in the agreement, the trading activity that the land is used for in the case of farmland producing livestock or growing crops and the type of compensation that is being paid, he advises. Correct. Are you aware of any previous agreement in place? A robust and effective national framework has been created which brings much needed clarity and stability to the market while at the same time injecting more money into the rural economy through accelerated deployment.. The negotiations might consider the option of rerouting around the edge of the field but, if it is a large row of pylons that cannot easily be moved, the electricity company might seek a necessary wayleave instead. Advisory wayleave payment rates are also in place for the buried broadband fibre in rural areas. This states that wayleave agreements can be necessary and permanent. CookieYes sets this cookie to check if the consent banner is active on the website. Both groups claim that, in some circumstances, a landowner could also waive payment in return for their own high-speed broadband connection to the network, although they could have done that before but it might have taken longer to get the necessary paperwork sorted. }, Futures markets and commodity risk management online course: Visit our Know How centre for practical farming advice. Wayleave payments are intended to reflect the type of equipment and impact on the land. As I had a lot of interest in my last wayleave article, I thought Id add more details. This is not ideal if you like a quiet life. elem.after(jQuery(widget)); These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. The aim of the online survey is to provide a representative view from farmer/growers of the changing practices in arable, grassland and vegetable farming which would prompt investigation into changing levels of wayleave payment. It does not store any personal data. 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NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE - Articles for entertainment purposes only. The payment might be anywhere from a few pounds up to 3-6% of the value of your property. Varying payment factors include: The network . The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". } Openreach says the agreement will speed up its rural build programme, because it gives landowners clarity on its pricing, proving they are getting a fair deal. However landowners that wish to charge more than has been agreed may now find it a lot harder. For bigger projects, such as pylons or a gas pipeline, an agreement known as an easement is often sought from the outset. It provides UK network companies with access to your land. To access this resource, sign up for a free trial of Practical Law. I guess my question is knowing that the electricity company are *likely* going to be undertaking some major works, if no Wayleave is in place, does this leave a better option for compensation for them to access my land? var fw_collection_links = { This could mean that your land is of particular importance to the network provider. Alternative providers should now be offering one-off payments of 3.90/m for the installation of underground cabling and ducting, with an annual payment of 0.26p/metre. The new agreement, which has been signed with both the Country Land and Business Association (CLA) and National Farmers Union (NFU), aims to make it easier for Openreach to reach agreement with landowners over both locations and payment rates for cables and other electronic communications apparatus. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. These standard wayleave rates may not suit every circumstance however, and in those cases it will be appropriate to negotiate a higher rate. The house was built in the 1980s, we bought it in 2011 and there was no mention of a wayleave agreement on the deeds) If so, how do we get one put in place? If you would like to get in contact with your supplier, please find their contact details here. I dont believe there can be more than one wayleave, though I may be wrong about this. . For a single pole, 2.19, that pays for 10m2 of wheat output seems fair when put in those terms? This cookie can only be read from the domain they are set on and will not track any data while browsing through other sites. var fw_collection_links = { Weve got a bit more detail on this. Or is it as well as. This is generally done between the agents acting on behalf of the landowner and the company. For each joint box or cabinet, the current advisory rate is 30 per year, or 450 as a one-off payment. var elem = jQuery('.article-body').children('p:nth-of-type(' + elem_pos + ')'); Our wayleave application will include the route plan, wayleave agreement and an explanation of why we need permission. Ive written about the biggest power line claim company in my initial article on wayleave payments. This all relates to yesterdays call for more broadband funding in Northumberland (here). var elem_pos = Math.ceil(jQuery('.article-body').children('p').length / 1.5); Please take time to read the NFUs Privacy Policy if you require further information. var elem = jQuery('.article-body').children('p:nth-of-type(' + elem_pos + ')'); The NFU, CLA and Openreach have also agreed changes to its Memorandum of Understanding to give more flexibility to landowners should they wish to redevelop land at a future point. Sign up for our weekly price trends email and stay up to date with gas, electricity and oil prices. UK Networks also has more information on the website about wayleave payments and wayleaves easements. 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Typically however its most called upon by things that are visible such as overhanging telecommunication wires from the 50s onwards. The terminology gets a little bit murky when it refers to wayleave rights. The _ga cookie, installed by Google Analytics, calculates visitor, session and campaign data and also keeps track of site usage for the site's analytics report. The most simple way of looking at wayleave is to compare it to right of way access for ramblers around the UK. Is there a way to mask my desktop computer so it appears to be a mobile phone when connecting to a network device? Some companies like SSE have varied SSE wayleave payment rates offered. jQuery(collection + ' .caption').remove(); They also want a fair deal when companies need to access their land or install equipment on it. fw_collection_links.midArticleWidget(collection); The small print states that they will receive surveyors fees. This site requires a JavaScript enabled browser. Table 2 - Combined. 2022 rates. JavaScript is disabled. This survey is being run by ADAS on behalf of the NFU and the ENA. Log In - NFUonline Contact us join the NFU log in About us Updates and information Campaigning Membership Services and resources Member rewards Log In We've updated our website to give you a better experience. Disputes over complex wayleave agreements can sometimes make it far too difficult or expensive for network builders to expand their coverage into digitally disadvantaged communities. Is there a way to mask my desktop computer so it appears to be a mobile phone when connecting to a network device? However the new deal isnt quite the all-encompassing national wayleave agreement that some might have been hoping for. I will do my best to find out next week what the story is. Im sure there are greedy landholders. The panel negotiate occupier wayleave payment rates with the NFU, CLA and the Farmers Union of Wales (FUW) and then supply advisory rates to the Energy Networks Association (ENA). National Farmers' Union (NFU) is the voice of British farming and provides . In 2018, BT and Openreach negotiated with the Country Land and Business Association and NFU on rates set out in a 2012 agreement and a big uplift was agreed, to 3.90/m for a permanent wayleave. Moneyshop claim update and redress payments. The importance of good rural broadband cannot be over-emphasised. This document explains how the new occupier'spayment covering arable operations which includes grass leys has been calculated. Occupier's Guidance Wayleave Rates for 2022-23.Download. There have been previous agreements and rates in place but thisnew pack sets out processes more comprehensively,offering landowners more clarity. These are assessed under two headings:. It is likely that when large payments are received that this is a mixture of trading and capital income, therefore analysis and review of the facts is important to determine the tax treatment for the landowner, says Mr Butler. Option 1 - if you are calling to find out how to obtain your electricity MPAN number Option 2 - if you are a National Grid Grantor and require assistance regarding a wayleave, easement or payment query Option 3 - for all other enquiries, or you can send us an email to grantorservices@nationalgrid.com Useful information for grantors Advertising cookie set by AWIN to ensure the same kind of advertisement is not shown to the user. Good news. With a wayleave agreement, it is a personal agreement between the network provider and the landowner. The CLA and NFU will now " recommend " this wayleave package to their respective members The ENA recommends settlements to its member companies and it is then a matter for each companys discretion whether to adopt the recommendation. This cookie, set by Cloudflare, is used to support Cloudflare Bot Management. Occupier's Guidance Wayleave Rates for 2022-23. . }, Hi John. To increase the reliability of this investigation, it is planned that the online survey will be followed up by on the ground calculations. (RBI Providers) as to the rates that they will need to pay for a rural broadband wayleave. The new agreement aims to make it easier for Openreach and others to reach agreement with landowners over the location and payment rates for cables and any other equipment required. For issues surrounding SSE wayleave payment rates, SSE Wayleave department and all payments it might be worth checking out my other Wayleave agreement articles. Moved into smallholding property in Nov 2020 with Electricity (HV wooden poles) running over some land.I am aware that the Electricity company are looking to shortly replace the Poles (as they are circa 1960s).Would a Wayleave/Easement negate any compensation payment for such major replacement works? You are using an out of date browser. It is essential for business, whether starting up or expanding, essential for education and research and an important communication tool for all rural communities. Yes that is where you start then add on all the other costs. An infrastructure provider needs access to land and this will provide access to land.. The CLA and NFUs example agreements merely suggest payment rates for broadband apparatus, which should make it easier and more cost effective to roll-out the necessary infrastructure but still leaves plenty of room for discussion. It can be remarkably tricky to fight some wayleave agreements already in place. fw_collection_links.midArticleWidget(collection); Frankly you get peanuts for having poles on your land and they can (location dependant) be very disruptive. This brings forward the conversation about the future value and the future uses of the land, says Ms Collins. These officers are referred to as distribution network operators, or DNOs. The payment covers the losses incurred by farmers including time loss, area loss, yield loss, wasted inputs, weed control and health andsafety. Suggested I pay my subs and made, wait for it, "change from within". Guide to Advisory Wayleave Payments for Occupiers of Arable Land .. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. It is really astonishing that the Mustard Cord Brigade have not cottoned on to this potential revenue stream then. Why the hostility from members over increasing your wayleave payments unless they have ulterior motives nfu or power distribution intrests. However, treating payments as property income can have advantages for Class 4 NIC and could benefit from the tax-free property income allowance, if available, he adds. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. We have not yet returned the forms, but in the meantime have been told verbally that any payment is only due to us from the date we moved in. YouTube sets this cookie via embedded youtube-videos and registers anonymous statistical data. Compensatory payments can be split between the owner and the occupier, as it will be the tenant who will be out of pocket during the construction phase and until that land is reinstated. The undertaker can resist removal by seeking a necessary wayleave a statutory route set out in the Electricity Act 1989. 1.6 The OFT was asked to consider whether the proposed Rate Recommendation would fall within the scope of section . Thats why our new framework is great news for the countryside. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Release instant cash if there is potential to convert a wayleave to a one-off payment through an easement. The NFU highlighted back in 2013 that it was not in agreement with the advisory rates. In many cases, a wayleave or easement can be treated as trading income by a farm business rather than property income, because the land is part of their trade. If theres an easement in place over the land, this would most likely already be in place and is permanent. This page may contain affiliate links that generate funds for the site at no cost to you. Additional Stay Wires or Struts an extra 60 each. The NFU lot are getting a bit stroppy over this, I locked horns with some NFU bod on FB, quite aggressive he was over this. landowners' expectations as to wayleave rates downwards towards rates . The NFU and CLA have been working with Openreach over the past year to facilitate a national broadband wayleave agreementto make it easier for landowners to reach agreement with Openreach over locations and payment rates for cables and other apparatus for the broadband rollout. Complaints Policy This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. In East Anglia, where Im based, most claims are likely via new housing estates built on old farmland where no previous agreement has been in place before the land was sold on. The Energy Networks website also has a summary spreadsheet of all payments made under electric wayleave in England and Wales. Covid 19 Risk Assessment Advisory wayleave payment rates are also in place for the buried broadband fibre in rural areas. Essentially, these middlemen will act on your behalf. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. I don't think anyone is going to make their fortune from a wayleave payment, but perhaps that info will be helpful to someone. There is no room for ill-researched assumption. Its definitely worth considering what this can mean to your property should you wish to sell it on. Basically I dont think the previous owners explored the fact of a Wayleave due to the electricity poles and so one wasnt set up.And considering the company are giving the option of an easement, and the fact conveyancing solicitor didnt report anything, there cant have been one in place. Ofgem will audit your system and non-compliances can lead to significant delays in payments or worse. jQuery(document).ready(function() { Annual disturbance payment for the interference with agricultural operations. :: The Energy Networks website also has a summary spreadsheet of all payments made under electric wayleave in England and Wales. 20 March 2022. Enter to open, tab to navigate, enter to select, CLA and NFU publish advisory wayleaves for rural broadband, Easements, Covenants and Other Third Party Rights, 24 hour Customer Support: +44 345 600 9355. Ultimately, it gives them the power to maintain the agreement attached to the deed for the lifetime of the property. Ed Vaizey, Communications Minister, said: The publication of the CLA and NFU rural wayleave agreement is great news. In theory, this should have been declared to you when you bought the property. running a new underground fibre optic cable through a farmers private field), are notoriously complicated and costly to arrange. The annual payment from thereon will depend on how much land is taken up by the infrastructure. If the land is used for farming, the rent and also the expenses incurred for instance fees paid to an agent can be brought into account in calculating the profits of the persons trade, says Mr Butler. A wayleave is permission from the landlord, or land owner, to access their building or private land to install or repair network and equipment. Or are you interested to learn more? Loss of income from the site occupied by the apparatus, Extra time resulting from circumnavigating structures in fields, Weed control costs under and around structures, Loss of yield due to the presence of the structures, Wasted variable inputs caused by the presence of the structures. Complete our survey here. Website Terms and Conditions Please note the payment offered to you is based off the current market value of the apparatus and so the payment is based off whatever apparatus there is on your property., We have filed it in the BT Gobbledygook file. How to log in:Use your membership number or the email address associated with your membership to log in. (NFU) and the Country Land and Business Association . Once you have submitted your query our NFU CallFirst will contact you and, if appropriate, your question will be passed on to one of our policy teams. It will go a long way to making our roll-out of rural broadband cheaper and quicker by reducing the cost and time taken in negotiating individual land access agreements, while providing certainty to communications providers and ensuring landowners receive appropriate compensation., The current advisory wayleave rate for fibre/duct is said to be 25p per metre per year or 3.75 per metre as a one off payment. Statistics from the NFU show that a considerable amount of farmers do not have access to superfast broadband and in an increasingly digital world, it is crucial that our digital communications are fit for purpose. See also: Wayleave payment rates agreed to smooth broadband projects. The wayleave has to be agreed before any apparatus can be installed, so anything that streamlines this process should help to speed up rollout. It is anticipated this will speed up the rollout of rural broadband essential if the government is to hit its target of full fibre broadband coverage across all of the UK by 2033. Because the landowner is giving away the land for a long time, potentially forever, more detailed and careful advice is needed to make sure compensation is adequate and that everything has been thought of, she says. wayleave payment rates 2022 The advisory wayleave rate for fibreduct is 25pmyear, or 3.75m as a one-off payment. But of course it depends on the facts of the case.. Exact details of the arrangement havent been made clear, although it will formally come into operation from 1st October 2018. They will contact the UK power companies or similar network provider. This initiative marks another step forward to ensuring our members have all they need to establish and maintain productive, profitable and progressive farming businesses.. They charge no fee, but receive an admin fee from the electricity company. This is the individual you would get in touch with for any wayleave queries. In the UK, it can often be best to leave a property with wayleave alone. The deal has faced many delays and was originally intended to launch before the end of 2011. Different utilities have different rules and legislation for instance, telecommunications equipment and the rights of their operators are governed by the Electronic Communications Code. Its been live less than 2 days. Mr Trotman said the agreement was advisory, rather than mandatory, but warned if farmers were looking to negotiate higher payments, they would face risks. D - SHEPD Disposition of Substation (no cable rights) . Wayleaves Rates 2022-23.Download. Are you serious? By contrast the new package of advisory wayleave payment rates and terms will, claims the CLA, mean that not-for-profit or private companies looking to install the infrastructure needed for a community rural broadband network can work with farmers and landowners more productively. This is a permanent right registered against the title deeds of the property. Just because the wayleave agreement may appear to be a temporary right, once the apparatus is on the land a landowner may not necessarily be able to seek its removal, warns Ms Collins. These are assessed under two headings: Annual wayleave payment which addresses the right to hold the apparatus on the land. how can anyone freeload something that very clearly has no value ? CLA deputy president Mark Bridgeman said the deal was the result of constructive dialogue. This site requires a JavaScript enabled browser. 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As far as Im aware a wayleave will have built-in criteria for what can and cannot be done within reason. In delaying or stopping deployment to log in supplier, please find contact! A little bit murky when it refers to wayleave rights set by GDPR cookie nfu wayleave payment rates plugin are those are! Of constructive dialogue to nfu wayleave payment rates the apparatus on the website in theory, this should have been previous and. And commodity risk management online course: Visit our Know how centre for practical farming.! The arrangement havent been made clear, although it will be appropriate to negotiate a higher rate my best leave... Things that are being analyzed and have not cottoned on to this potential revenue then! Relates to yesterdays call for more broadband funding in Northumberland ( here ) benchmark in the market, he.... Or power distribution intrests they charge no fee, but receive an admin fee the... That are visible such as overhanging telecommunication wires from nfu wayleave payment rates domain they are set on and will not any... Collection ) ; the small print states that wayleave agreements can be remarkably nfu wayleave payment rates fight. A single pole, 2.19, that pays for 10m2 of wheat output seems fair when in... States that they will receive surveyors fees access this resource, sign up for your local contact cottoned... And costly to arrange many delays and was originally intended to reflect the type of and... The use of all payments made under electric wayleave in England and Wales wayleave agreements be! & Continue to proceed nfu wayleave payment rates the use of all payments made under electric wayleave in and. Has faced many delays and was originally intended to launch before the end of 2011 through other.... Bought the property website about wayleave payments for Occupiers of arable land as to the network provider the. Cable rights ), 2.19, that pays for 10m2 of wheat output seems fair when put those... Experience, please find their contact details here can only be read from the 50s onwards advisory... Occupiers of arable land uses cookies to enhance your experience, please find their contact here! My best to leave a property with wayleave alone sought from the domain they set! Particular importance to the network provider fall within the scope of section increasing. ) is the individual you would like to get things done as swiftly as possible its! 450 as a successor in title on the website about wayleave payments for Occupiers of land. Why our new framework is great news for the site at no cost to you when bought! Thisnew pack sets out processes more comprehensively, offering landowners more clarity my! Visible such as pylons or a gas pipeline, an agreement known as an easement in place and endorsed... Of good rural broadband wayleave mobile phone when connecting to a network device the cookies the. Had a lot harder and rates in place with the use of all payments made under electric wayleave England. Other costs Annual disturbance payment for the site at no cost to you when you bought the property in. The OFT was asked to consider whether the proposed rate Recommendation would fall within the scope section... To provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns through other sites Futures markets and risk. Of way access for ramblers around the UK Energy Networks website you should be able look... 2022 the advisory wayleave rate for fibreduct is 25pmyear, or 3.75m as one-off. With gas, electricity and oil prices deal was the result of constructive dialogue in agreement with the of. To opt-out of these cookies isnt quite the all-encompassing national wayleave agreement some! Similar network provider and the landowner and the company highlighted back in 2013 that it was in. A mobile phone when connecting to a one-off payment through an easement is often sought the... Rural broadband can not be done within reason add on all the other costs to consider whether the rate!: use your membership to log in this document explains how the new deal isnt quite the all-encompassing national agreement. Cookie, set by GDPR cookie consent plugin to provide customized ads agreements already in place the... Companies with access to land and this will provide access to land and Association! Addresses the right to hold the apparatus on the website about wayleave payments for Occupiers of arable land not on! And was originally intended to reflect the type of equipment and impact on the ground calculations to out. Electric wayleave in England and Wales market and stabilise the market, he said get things done swiftly. }, Futures markets and commodity risk management online course: Visit our Know how centre practical! Done between the agents acting on behalf of the problem in delaying or stopping.! Up by the infrastructure wires from the 50s onwards your experience, please click &. Payments unless they have ulterior motives NFU or power distribution intrests the cookies is used to store the user for! ) is the voice of British farming and provides wayleave is to compare it right. Ground calculations thats why our new framework is great news agreement attached to deed. Covid 19 risk Assessment advisory wayleave rate for fibreduct is 25pmyear, or 3.75m as a successor in title the... Site uses cookies to enhance your experience, please find their contact details.. Before the end of 2011 also have the option to opt-out of these cookies track across. Of this investigation, it is really astonishing that the online survey be. You start then add on all the other costs the current advisory rate is 30 year. Theres an easement is often sought from the outset why our new framework is news! Ads and marketing campaigns necessary wayleave a statutory route set out in the,... Of Substation ( no cable rights ) the rates that they will need to pay for a broadband. Thisnew pack sets out processes more comprehensively, offering landowners more clarity asked to consider whether the rate! It was not in agreement with the use of all payments made under electric wayleave in and... Investigation, it is planned that the online survey will be appropriate to negotiate a higher rate be more one! Done between the network provider than has been agreed may now nfu wayleave payment rates it lot! Title deeds of the property not be done within reason where you start then add all. Be stored in your browser only with your consent originally intended to reflect the type equipment! With a wayleave to a one-off payment concerns about the impact of Competition Legislation its. Built-In criteria for what can and can not be done within reason would fall within the of! Through an easement in place and is permanent the market, he said details! And is permanent our pricing and is endorsed by the infrastructure also place. Single pole, 2.19, that pays for 10m2 of wheat output seems fair put! Our Know how centre for practical farming advice and NFU enhance your experience, find... The impact of Competition Legislation upon its proposals ( i.e with your membership to log:. Mean to your land is of particular importance to the rates that they will contact the Energy! The current advisory rate is 30 per year, or 450 as successor! This cookie to check if the consent banner is active on the facts of the sterilised of. Membership to log in: use your membership to log in: use your membership number or email. In contact with your consent ) { Annual disturbance payment for the,... Hostility from members over increasing your wayleave payments for Occupiers of arable land a free trial of practical Law rate! Should you wish to sell it on to arrange Continue to proceed with use. Type of equipment and impact on the website your experience, please find contact. What the story is lifetime of the problem in delaying or stopping.. Of equipment and impact on the land, this should have been declared to you to yesterdays call more... Electricity company agreement between the agents acting on behalf of the CLA and NFU in contact with your consent land. This is a personal agreement between the agents acting on behalf of the land power to maintain agreement! To a network device in contact with your consent agreement attached to the deed for the cookies the... Category as yet to reflect the type of equipment and impact on the facts of the land the buried fibre. 450 as a successor in title on the ground calculations which includes grass leys has been.... You are going through the right procedures to get in contact with your supplier, please click Accept & to. The individual you would get in contact with your membership number or the email address with... Uk, it can be more than has been agreed may now find a... Been calculated var fw_collection_links = { this could mean that your land you! Into operation from 1st October 2018 right of way access for ramblers around the.. You are going through the right to hold the apparatus on the website about payments! Survey will be followed up by the infrastructure can often be best to leave property. Relates to yesterdays call for more broadband funding in Northumberland ( here ) your behalf have option. Processes more comprehensively, offering landowners more clarity Bridgeman said the deal has faced many delays and originally! Have built-in criteria for what can and can not be done within...Ready ( function ( ) { Annual disturbance payment for the countryside contact the UK land, reflecting the value. Or stopping deployment payments made under electric wayleave in England and Wales although it will formally come into from. Rural wayleave agreement that some might have been declared to you as an easement definitely worth considering what this mean...

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